Mulvaney No Other Votes Till Senate Votes Again on Health Care
Face the Nation transcript May vii, 2017: Mulvaney, Manchin, Rice
JOHN DICKERSON, HOST, Confront THE NATION: Today on Face THE NATION: The president takes a victory lap after the House passes his health care bill. Volition the public cheer or jeer? And will the Senate continue?
(BEGIN VIDEO Prune)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: How am I doing? Am I doing OK? I'm president. Hey, I'g president. (LAUGHTER) (APPLAUSE) Tin can you believe it? Correct?
(END VIDEO Prune)
DICKERSON: The president was positively giddy at a Rose Garden victory party subsequently the House passed his bill to replace Obamacare.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE U.s.: Welcome to the beginning of the end of Obamacare. (CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(Cease VIDEO CLIP)
DICKERSON: While Republicans celebrated, Democrats said they were doomed.
(Begin VIDEO Clip)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: Only you accept every provision of this neb tattooed on your forehead. Y'all volition glow in the dark on this one.
UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: Shame! Shame!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DICKERSON: Opponents are already rallying. And Republican lawmakers accept started hearing from aroused constituents.
Idaho Congressman Raul Labrador was on the defensive at a Friday town hall.
(Brainstorm VIDEO Clip)
REP. RAUL LABRADOR (R), IDAHO: Nobody dies because they don't have admission to health care.
(Terminate VIDEO Prune)
DICKERSON: What is next for health care reform? We will hear from Upkeep Manager Mick Mulvaney. West Virginia Democratic Senator Joe Manchin will also join united states of america. And we spent time this week talking with Pennsylvania voters most the country of the nation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DICKERSON: A word of phrase that describes the country correct now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Scared.
UNIDENTIFIED Male person: Tenuous.
UNIDENTIFIED Male: In deep trouble.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Conflicted.
UNIDENTIFIED Female: Moving forward.
(Terminate VIDEO CLIP)
DICKERSON: Plus, former Secretarial assistant of State Condoleezza Rice joins us to talk about her new book on commonwealth and whether it is existence threatened. And we will also have plenty of political analysis. It is all coming up on Face up THE NATION. Good morning time, and welcome to Face up THE NATION. I am John Dickerson. We brainstorm this morning with White House Budget Director Mick Mulvaney, one of the key players at the White Firm in getting the health care pecker through the Business firm. Expert morning, Mr. Director. Thanks for...
MICK MULVANEY, DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF Direction AND Budget: Good morning time, John. Thank you for having me.
DICKERSON: Thank you for beingness here. If I get health care through Obamacare, what kind of promises does this Firm beak make to me?
MULVANEY: That it will really exist at that place. 1 of the reasons that we are pushing so hard to supercede Obamacare -- by the way, I was on it when I was in the Business firm of Representatives. People don't realize that. I was really on the exchanges. And one of the promises nosotros are making to people is that the wellness care that we will exist providing will really exist sustainable and be at that place. One of the stories I think that isn't getting nearly plenty coverage is the fact that Obamacare is already failing in places like Iowa. And I call up even Virginia found out this calendar week they won't have coverage in some places. And so, one of the big pushes that nosotros are making is, we are going to provide a arrangement that is actually sustainable and can survive and provide wellness care.
DICKERSON: But, of course, people hear about the Congressional Upkeep Office assessment of this House bill. And when you say it will be at that place for them they remember, well, wait a infinitesimal, the CBO said 24 million people will lose coverage. And then information technology won't be there for those 24.
MULVANEY: Yes, I saw the CBO score. And yous get down into the details on it, one of the things you encounter is that the CBO assumes that in one case the mandate is gone, people volition voluntarily driblet off of expanded Medicaid. Recall about that for a second. The CBO is bold getting to that 24 meg is, you get Medicaid for free, but one time the mandate that you accept it is gone, y'all will voluntarily give up that complimentary benefit. Information technology is just absurd. It was one of the -- nosotros talked nigh information technology, I recall, when that first analysis came out that CBO, nosotros thought, really missed the mark. They missed the mark a couple of years ago on how many people would sign upward. And I think they have missed the marking again on how many people will lose coverage.
DICKERSON: Permit'southward say they really missed the mark and it's only fifteen million people. That is -- that is a lot of people nevertheless. Did they really miss the marking past 24 million?
MULVANEY: Again, compared to what? Then much of the dialogue today is sort of compared to this ideal of what people idea Obamacare was going to be and what they want information technology and then desperately it to be. The existent thing to measure it confronting is against what Obamacare really is.
Confront information technology, people are losing coverage today in Iowa, again, for instance, under Obamacare. People take 100 percent increases today in Arizona under Obamacare. That is the measure, not against the ideal of what they idea or wanted Obamacare to be.
DICKERSON: So, is the -- so, and then is terminal catastrophe bespeak nosotros are at here basically people will lose coverage, but just not as much every bit you think they would accept lost under Obamacare?
MULVANEY: Well, I think what they are going to terminate up is a different type of system that is more state-driven. Ane of the things I think yous saw in the bill this week, as the nib sort of evolved, was devolving more and more control to the land. When the kickoff version of the bill came out a couple of weeks ago, nosotros did that extensively with Medicaid. I used to be in the state regime and we used to beg the federal authorities, give united states more control over Medicaid.
Give us the money, but let united states of america provide for our own people at the local and state level. And our bill did that. And yous saw a fiddling bit more of that again as the bill evolved, giving more and more command to united states of america.
DICKERSON: The president has said he will not sign or support anything that doesn't help his voters. And here is an cess Avik Roy in "Forbes." He is no fan of Obamacare. But he writes this: "Millions of low-income Americans in their 50s and 60s will be priced out of the insurance market, while millions of upper-income Americans, who don't need the help, volition get a big taxation credit. Many of the people adversely affected by the AHCA," the nib that passed the House, "are Trump voters whose favorite candidate campaigned on insurance for everybody."
So, Avik Roy and a lot of others have said, older voters volition run into their premiums become up. People -- working-class people volition face costs that will cause them to non have insurance coverage. That seems to be a straight accident to a promise the president made.
MULVANEY: Yes, I am not familiar with that gentleman's study, not familiar what version of the bill he looked at I know, for example, every bit we went through the process, more than money was set aside to help folks who might be in that fifty-to-65 bracket. But confront it, we are all sort of guessing right now because the negotiation is ongoing. The bill that passed out of the House is well-nigh likely not going to be the bill that is put in front of the president. The Senate will take their chance to modify the bill, improve the bill. The negotiations will continue once again, and then I think information technology is important we reserve judgment on what the president will or won't sign until nosotros know what is in forepart of him.
DICKERSON: So, the president kept proverb this is a groovy nib, and information technology'south a good bill, just it is incomplete is what you are maxim.
MULVANEY: No, I am saying that the Senate is part of the government. This is a beak that passed out of the House. You and I are about the same historic period. We remember "School Stone" when we were kids, and I am but a bill, yes, I'yard only a bill. And nosotros're going to go through that process. Is it ugly? Perhaps. Is information technology slow? Yes. But it is the correct way to exercise it and it'due south how we're going to handle the beak.
DICKERSON: The president said in the Rose Garden -- quote -- "Nosotros will have nifty wellness care for anybody in our nation." When we are done with the "School Rock" procedure, volition anybody in the nation be covered, as the president promised in the Rose Garden?
MULVANEY: I think everybody will have coverage that is meliorate than what they had under Obamacare.
DICKERSON: But will everyone -- he says everybody in the nation. So, even Obamacare didn't comprehend everyone.
MULVANEY: Yeah. Well, what nosotros talked about before is the access to it. Remember what Obamacare gave you. Obamacare gave y'all insurance, only not wellness care. A lot of folks who were technically insured either couldn't afford the premiums or couldn't beget the co-pay.
And that's what we have been driving at, giving people the care that they desire, the quality that they need, the affordability that they deserve. That's what we are talking about, actual medical intendance, not but insurance.
DICKERSON: So -- but the president, when he says anybody will take health care, that sounds like a pretty simple affair to either say, yeah or no, that is going to happen.
(CROSSTALK)
MULVANEY: We will wait forward to doing that.
DICKERSON: So, everyone will have health care at the end of this process.
Let me ask you a question nigh this nib. Should House members who passed it go home and accept town halls and entrada on information technology?
MULVANEY: Absolutely, without reservation. In fact, I would be surprised if that is not exactly what they are doing. That's what I would do. In fact, I commented in this concluding four or v weeks. I think it's been four or five weeks since the health bill didn't come to a vote like we expected. And I sort of put my quondam Congress -- congressman hat on and said, I wouldn't want to go habitation and explain why we didn't vote on it. I would be ecstatic near going back and maxim, look, here is what we did. Here is the procedure. Was information technology ugly? Yes, but did we become it done? Did we follow through on our promise to repeal in the Firm? Yes. No, I think it would exist something that Republicans should run to, not run abroad from.
DICKERSON: The president this calendar week on the budget question said that we should accept a skilful shutdown. What is a good shutdown?
MULVANEY: Yes, I saw that tweet. In fact, I saw that tweet about ii minutes before I walked in to do the press reports on the 2017 funding bill, only here is what I recall it is.
I retrieve the president is frustrated that the process in Washington is broken. What we but did this week was fine and passable, but not ideal. The appropriations, the spending process, Congress using the ability of the purse, has been broken here in Washington for more than than 10 years.
And I think a good shutdown volition be 1 that can help set up that. Information technology's part of that overall drain the swamp mentality about Washington, D.C. This president is willing to call up outside of the box and do things differently around here in order to alter Washington.
And if that comes to a shutdown in September, so be it.
DICKERSON: OK. Well, nosotros volition have y'all dorsum in September and see if the lights are still on.
Mr. Director, cheers then much for.
MULVANEY: Well, face information technology, no one idea the lights would be on this week, but they were, so don't e'er underestimate the president.
DICKERSON: All right, thank you so much.
MULVANEY: Thanks, John.
JOHN DICKERSON IN STUDIO: Before we traveled to Reading, Pennsylvania to talk to voters about the state of the nation. Located just outside of Philadelphia, Reading is part of a county that went for President Trump in the ballot.
JOHN DICKERSON: Tom, your thoughts about our country'southward management?
TOM: Well, last Sunday on your show, President Trump said that war trumps trade. Well, in my view, state of war trumps all the other issues because if you await at the money that we've wasted, trillions and trillions of dollars, Donald Trump has surrounded himself with military people. To a hammer, every trouble is a boom. To a general, every problem is a military strike. So from this perspective, and I'chiliad sorry to say, I voted for President Trump because he made unequivocal commitments to stay out of Syrian arab republic. He said that Barack Obama's plans to launch an attack were unconstitutional and illegal and he immediately does that on his own.
JOHN DICKERSON: Dale, I desire to go your thoughts about the direction of the country.
DALE: Well, I thought over the last couple years we were headed in the correct direction. I think a lot more people were being represented and shown more respect, particularly people—LGBTQ people and that kind of matter now. And I think particularly at present with the election of President Trump, it's—I don't retrieve it's going be that way anymore.
JOHN DICKERSON: Susie. A give-and-take or a phrase that describes the country correct now?
SUSIE: Scary.
TOM: Tenuous.
JOHN DICKERSON: Jerry?
JERRY: In deep problem.
CONSTANCE: Conflicted.
JOHN DICKERSON: Barbara?
BARBARA: Moving forward.
JOHN DICKERSON: Dale?
DALE: Divided.
JOHN DICKERSON: Anthony?
ANTHONY: Unsure.
JOHN DICKERSON: Fred?
FREDERICK: Divided.
JOHN DICKERSON: Eliza?
ELIZA: Uncertain.
JOHN DICKERSON: Keith?
KEITH: Divisive.
JOHN DICKERSON: President Trump said he wanted an America first strange policy. What'due south you lot—as a Trump supporter, what take y'all idea of his foreign policy so far?
KEITH: Proficient. Very skillful.
JOHN DICKERSON: Were you a fan of his action in Syrian arab republic?
KEITH: Well, information technology'south a tough i. I'm non confronting it. I think it sent a message. I think information technology was more of sending a message than information technology was in what information technology really accomplished. I think a lot of things that Trump does are messages. The man's a lot smarter than we requite him credit for, I think.
JOHN DICKERSON: Anthony, you voted for President Trump. What did you look when you voted for him, and what are y'all thinking now?
ANTHONY: Well, me watching him on "The Apprentice," seeing that he was no nonsense. And him beingness our president now, he yet has that same attitude, where past presidents, bug overseas, they would have-- a slow arroyo like sending in troops on the footing and putting them in danger, where Donald Trump is, "I'm merely gonna blow you lot up."
JOHN DICKERSON: Barbara, what exercise you think's the best thing the president has done?
BARBARA: I think the best thing that he has done is provide the pick for our military to seek medical handling elsewhere when they cannot make it with the VA. I have-- three children in the armed services. And-- they're afflicted by that directly.
JOHN DICKERSON: Dale, what do you recall the president should know that he doesn't know?
DALE: I call up his focus has been on the media far too much. I think he commented in almost any interview I come across. And I recall he needs to realize that he's going to be reported on no thing what. So he should simply do a good chore, and so maybe they'll report proficient things about him instead of him beingness so concerned well-nigh his image.
JOHN DICKERSON: Anthony, when he wakes upwardly in the morning time, what do y'all think the president thinks nearly?
ANTHONY: What's the best tweet that he could put out. (LAUGH) Well, Donald Trump is trying to plow America around the all-time way he know how. Similar he said, his job is a lot harder than he idea because it'southward not like running a concern, where Donald Trump would fit more than into a kingship than a president in a commonwealth considering when you lot're a king, you brand the rules. And that'due south the way Donald Trump thinks. Simply when he became president, there're rules that he has to follow. So he just can't do what he wanna do.
JOHN DICKERSON: Keith, practice yous recall the president tells the truth?
KEITH: In his mind, definitely. I don't recall he intentionally lies. I recall he sometimes has problem with facts. I think nosotros all have problem with facts when we try to convince people of understanding our position.
JOHN DICKERSON: Eliza, what would you like to see happen with health care?
ELIZA: I personally want to see a Medicare for all-- or a single payer option. I believe that that polls very high actually among the American people nosotros have right now have the ACA, the Affordable Care Deed. For now, I mean, that at to the lowest degree needs to stay intact. What the Republicans are planning to do correct at present is upsetting to me and many people-- because it basically would have abroad wellness treat people with pre-existing conditions. Or, you know, merely outright deny, allow them to deny, or push premiums up.
JOHN DICKERSON: Connie, what do you think near the land of-- of race relations in the-- in the Trump presidency?
CONSTANCE: Since he's been elected there seems to be this ascent in kind of-- people feel that they don't have to-- exist civil and that they tin can do and say anything. Because he has such a persona of, "I'm just going practise and say whatever I feel." I think people take taken the lead from that and are acting it out and experience that they have support in that. And I-- I retrieve that that'southward an awful way to be.
JOHN DICKERSON IN STUDIO: We'll be back in one minute with more of our focus group and their thoughts on the Democrats.
VIDEO LEAD IN: I was on the way to winning until the combination of Jim Comey's letter on October 28 and Russian WikiLeaks raised doubts in the minds of people who were inclined to vote for me just got scared off.
JOHN DICKERSON IN STUDIO: That was Hillary Clinton, speaking out about her loss to President Trump. The liberals in our focus group had some tough talk when it came to the Democrats.
JOHN DICKERSON: Jack, what does the Autonomous Party hateful to you right now?
JACK: Well, the Autonomous Party has—seems to be lost. And the reason they seem to be, to me, they seem to be lost is because they permit the Republicans ascertain who they are.
JOHN DICKERSON: Connie, if you were giving an instruction manual to the Democratic Party to go their act (LAUGH) together what would you tell them to practise?
CONNIE: They have to define who they are. They have to have a backbone virtually standing upwardly for it and not be bought out by anyone or swayed because they retrieve they might lose their office. They have to be willing to stand for it. If you're going to say, "I'm standing for this," and so y'all have to stand for it all the way
JERRY: I think the Democrats, non only are they out of touch on, they accept no interest in correcting the state of affairs. They're not doing whatsoever post mortems. They're writing off, "Well, we don't own the White Firm because of Putin or because of WikiLeaks." What did WikiLeaks tell us, past the way? They-- regardless of who was behind information technology, they confirmed that Hillary Clinton and the Autonomous establishment are liars. And that they had their thumb on the calibration for-- yous know, for Hillary Clinton. Well, y'all know, so what are they basically proverb? "If-- if nosotros hadn't been defenseless lying, we'd exist running the land right now."
JOHN DICKERSON: Practise any of you lot have a story that yous hear almost all the time that you think, "This story is not important and I don't desire to hear any more than almost it"?
BARBARA: We'll become with Russia, okay, because that was one of the things that's driving me admittedly mad. I think Russia has already been proven to not have had any impact on our elections. They did not, you know, drive from polling place to polling identify and, you know, hoodwink the machines and any. So to try to go along going on, that really makes the Democrats look a little desperate.
JOHN DICKERSON: Eliza, practice y'all trust that government tin work in the all-time interests of the people, even if that'due south not where it is now?
ELIZA: I definitely accept faith in—that we can get to where nosotros need to go for the American people. I live in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. And just the outpouring of people who perchance didn't care nigh politics before, never really thought it mattered people have come out to voice their concerns, merely also get active, become activated, get engaged. Get door to door, talk to their neighbors, detect out, "Hey, how are you feeling well-nigh what'south going on, and do you want to make a difference?"
JOHN DICKERSON: Take yous all by and large seen an uptick in political activity in your neighborhoods?
JERRY: Yes.
JACK: Yeah.
BARBARA: Oh aye.
JACK: Definitely.
BARBARA: Yup. Yup.
JOHN DICKERSON: Since the election, Susie, has the shape of your congregation or the things y'all hear from parishioners inverse? And, if so, how?
SUSIE: I recollect sitting around the table the Sunday after the women'southward march-- and having five different women sitting effectually that tabular array, telling me about how they'd been in Washington the solar day earlier. And I was utterly amazed and pleased and happy.
FRED: We're in Reading, Pennsylvania. And what people out there might not know is Reading is one of the poorest cities in the entire country. I matter I know people in my metropolis are thinking nigh, and it's what this whole country'south thinking virtually, when people are polled, the number ane issue is jobs and the economy. The people in Reading, yous know, they want good jobs. And I remember that's ane thing that the Democratic Party e'er talked nearly in the by. Y'all know, they were supposed to be the party that represented the blueish collar workers. And now, in this past election, you know, we didn't hear anything about jobs. Trump was the i talking well-nigh jobs, well-nigh, you lot know, the outsourcing problem, bringing back jobs. And I retrieve one matter that the Democrats are so out of affect with America about is that yous ask Democrats about jobs and what their solution is, and they accept ii solutions. Number one is raise taxes on the rich which, honestly, that does not create jobs. And number 2 thing they say is, "We need to heighten the minimum wage." People in Redding, Pennsylvania and everywhere don't wanna work at McDonald's their entire life. My dad, when I was younger, told me, "When-- you grow upwardly, I want you to get an educational activity. I want you to do well and then yous don't need a $twenty an hour factory job like I have." And now, people are saying, "$20 an hour factory task? What even is that?
JOHN DICKERSON: Jack, what gives you hope?
JACK: Empathy. That is the word that brings all of this together. Caring about someone else. Caring about your party. Caring most your town. Caring about what other people think. Being ceremonious. Caring about getting good jobs. Caring almost the people that you're trying to aid, to raise up. Empathy. Brings it all together.
JOHN DICKERSON: All right. Thank you all very much for being here.
(End VIDEOTAPE)
DICKERSON: An extended version of our focus group is available on our Spider web site at FACETHENATION.com.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DICKERSON: Nosotros are joined past Autonomous Senator Joe Manchin. He's in Charleston, W Virginia. Good morning, Senator. I wanted to pick up to on something that OMB Director Mulvaney said. He said there might be something called a good shutdown. What exercise y'all think of the notion of a adept shutdown?
SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D), Due west VIRGINIA: There is no good shutdown. There should not fifty-fifty be the talk of a shutdown. John, basically, nosotros tin can do a C.R., a continuing resolution, for one day, we can do it for ane week, we can do information technology for i month, only we should at to the lowest degree stay there and go our task washed. Shutting it down puts too much, absolute -- too much absolute the desperation on people. And information technology is just un-American. We should non do that. I have been through a shutdown, and it did not end well. And it wasn't good for anyone, and nobody gained a thing. So I hope nosotros get the shutdown out of our vocabulary, get back to working, staying there and get our job done.
DICKERSON: Managing director Mulvaney said that this process that led to the agreement that kept the government open until the autumn was a bad procedure. Some people would look at it and say, well, the Democrats got something and the Republicans got something, and that is not birthday a bad affair, when there is bipartisan cooperation.
MANCHIN: Well, they are just not used to bipartisan cooperation, and it's then far and few in betwixt. They didn't know what to do information technology when they got information technology. Everybody worked on something. We took intendance of our armed services and made sure that'due south -- that was a large effort by many people on both sides of the aisle. Just the Republican -- President Trump pushed that very hard. That was something that was needed, and we did that. There was other things we wanted to protect, basically, the well- being of people, basically, who accept been left backside. In my state of W Virginia, a country that has done the heavy lifting for over 100 years, and so the mining, provided the energy of the state, made the steel, congenital guns and ships, defend the country, we have done information technology all. And we have had a lot of big challenges lately, especially with the opiate addiction. Nosotros kept funding in for that. Then, at that place'due south an atrocious lot of things that basically came out of this that was negotiated. It was a compromise. And that is something we should all be proud of.
DICKERSON: Senator, you mentioned the opioid habit.
At that place was a report that the White House is thinking in its next budget of largely zeroing out the budget or cut 95 percentage of the budget of the White Firm drug arbiter. What is your feeling about that?
MANCHIN: John, I would hope that that is not a serious consideration. This is -- this, in any other sense of the discussion, would be a pandemic. We have lost more Americans -- I take lost over 800 West Virginians in the last yr, lost their lives to opiate and drug addiction. This is something that nosotros have got to fight. Simply we have got to make certain that the FDA does non put more than production on the market than is needed, the DEA is doing their job of policing it, that basically we have doctors being more educated and not passing them out like G&Ms. We demand to accept handling centers that accept care of people. Nosotros demand to start basically education from kindergarten all the way through adulthood. We need to get involved and stop this epidemic that is going on that is just ravishing. For the first time, a lot of states have fallen beneath the amount of working people, percentage-wise, greater than those that are working. And that has never happened before. When you autumn below l percent of your adults that should be working that aren't working, something is wrong.
It is either addiction, conviction, or lack of skill sets. We take to set on this, John. And you lot don't cut 90 percent of the funding out of the greatest epidemic that we have always had.
DICKERSON: All correct, Senator Manchin, nosotros are going to talk to you in a moment later on this curt break we're going to have near wellness intendance and a few other topics. So, stay with us. We will be back with more than from Senator Manchin.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DICKERSON: And we will exist correct back with a lot more FACE THE NATION, including our interview with former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, and more from Senator Manchin and as well our political panel.
Stay with united states of america.
(COMMERCIAL Pause)
DICKERSON: Welcome dorsum to FACE THE NATION.
Nosotros keep our conversation with West Virginia Democrat Senator Joe Manchin.
Senator, what did y'all make of the health intendance bill that passed out of the Firm?
MANCHIN: I couldn't believe it. I really couldn't from this standpoint. We are a state, and every bit I mentioned before, that's done a lot of heavy work for this country, heavy lifting for over 100 years. Nosotros have a lot of pre-existing conditions. I take a lot of people that are elderly. Every dynamic in every topography of my state gets admittedly slammed with this piece of legislation. So I said, the get rid of the word "repeal" and beginning talking nearly repairing. If they can go rid of the discussion "repeal," John, we can sit down, Democrats and Republicans could work through this. Nosotros know that this beak needs to be fixed. The Affordable Intendance Act, in that location's not a Democrat that doesn't realize we need to work on the private market. But y'all're throwing the baby out with the bath water and and so you're throwing insult to injury by giving $575 billion tax cutting to the wealthiest Americans while y'all're cut $880 billion of service to the poorest Americans. If you want more synergies at that place, yous know, I said this before, John, we take given 20 one thousand thousand people -- 20 million people health intendance that never had, never bought, don't know the value. We never gave them one word of instructions how to use it, how to employ it more effectively, how to use it more efficiently, how to proceed themselves healthier, nutritional, lifestyles, changing their whole lifestyles, making them more accountable and responsible. There's tremendous savings. We're not trying anything. We're only throwing the baby out with the bath h2o in order to requite a revenue enhancement break. I just want to work and sit and try to get something done, but no 1'south asked u.s.. I understand that we take 13 Republican senators working on revamping the bill. Our congressional delegation says don't worry the Senate will prepare it and no one's asked whatever Democrat. And I'm the more centrist Democrat willing to piece of work and gear up things if people really want to exercise information technology, but I tin't do it with the threat of shutdown, repeal, throw it out.
DICKERSON: I want to movement on quickly, senator, to the Intelligence Commission, which you sit on. You've gotten some more than information. The CIA has given some briefings. Is there -- what'south your view on any proof? Accept you seen anything that suggests any conclusion between the Russians and the Trump entrada?
MANCHIN: Well, there'due south an awful lot of fume in that location, let's put it that style, people that might take said they were involved, to what extent they were involved, to what extent the president might accept known about these people or whatever. There'south cypher there from that standpoint that we have seen directly linking our president to any of that. Only with the other thing beingness said, there's an awful lot of people surrounding that, whether it exist Mike Flynn, Carter Folio, Manafort, all these people of high interest. We're going to find out. This is going to be done.
And the Senate, as I said before, is the workhorse of this functioning, the Senate Intelligence Committee. When Carter Folio says he wants to basically exist cooperating and of a sudden we go another bulletin, foreign bulletin, maxim, well, if you want to know what'south going on, check with the Obama or President Obama or his administration. That's not the fashion to conduct a thorough investigation to become to the lesser, to see if you had, y'all know, whatsoever concerns that we might have of your -- your involvement with the -- the Russians. We know the Russians did everything they could to exist involved in our entrada. We know that what they're doing effectually the world right now, whether it be in France or other parts of the globe, they'll practice anything they can to disrupt any type of a liberty, if you will, or a democracy or an involvement where there'south an orderly transfer of power. That'south not for them.
DICKERSON: All correct.
MANCHIN: They're going to do what they can. We've got to brand sure we stop information technology.
DICKERSON: All right, Senator Manchin, give thanks you so much for being with us.
And joining us now is former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. She'southward got a new volume out. It's titled "Democracy: Stories From the Long Road to Freedom." Welcome, Madam Secretary.
CONDOLEEZZA RICE, Sometime SECRETARY OF STATE: Give thanks you.
DICKERSON: Information technology'south very skillful to have you here.
RICE: It's swell to exist with you lot.
DICKERSON: Senator Manchin and I were just talking almost Russian federation, and then I'll start there with the question to you, which is, help Americans who have heard all the political talk of Russia, how should Americans think near Russia and America'southward national security interests?
RICE: Well, we have to recall about Russia in terms of the last several years nether Vladimir Putin. And I think what we're seeing is the president of Russian federation who has established authoritarianism at dwelling house and assertiveness and aggressiveness abroad, he really believes that he is re-establishing Russian greatness, that he has Russian federation back in the game. But the most important thing is that he hasn't seemed to respected certain lines in going that. And the nigh important thing is to re-establish that the United states of america is going to defend its allies in NATO under Article 5, an set on upon one is an assail upon all. That the United States will not countenance the Russian military threatening our forces by flying very close to our ships or to our planes. I think rebuilding the defense budget has helped to ship that signal. And, by the way, the strike in Syria has helped to send the signal that the United States is going to get leverage back in the Middle East. And then this is a dangerous time with the Russians, but it could too be, one time nosotros've established the ground rules, there are many things we demand to cooperate with the Russians on, including, by the way, the most vexing trouble of North Korea where they too can't be likewise comforted by a reckless North Korean leader with missiles and nuclear weapons that can reach Russian federation, equally well as somewhen the Usa.
DICKERSON: I desire to get to Democratic people's republic of korea in a second, just you write in your volume well-nigh Russia being a tide that has gone deep into Europe when it'due south powerful and receded when it's weak. Where is America in terms of breaking that tide? I mean is it halfway there, a quarter of the way at that place?
RICE: Well, we've always hoped that the Russians would see their part in the world every bit one built on the respect that comes from economic power, from soft power. Merely, unfortunately, it's turned to military power again to found itself. And I do remember that nosotros've -- we've begun to say to the Russians, for instance, what President Obama did to put rotating forces in the Baltic states and in Poland, that was a good message to the Russians that sure things are not acceptable. The strike in Syria was a expert message, but we demand to continue to send strong messages almost Ukraine and other places that nosotros're not going to eyebrow a Russia that is aggressive against allies and -- and states that -- that shouldn't be threatened by their neighbors.
DICKERSON: On N Korea, what should America non countenance? What is the -- what is the tipping point for --
RICE: Well, a lot has happened, John, in the concluding several years. This is at present a -- a different regime that even nether Kim Jong-il, the father. Kim Jong-united nations is reckless, maybe even a scrap unstable. He has fabricated improvements in his nuclear capabilities that look as if he'due south getting closer to a deliverable nuclear weapon. And perhaps in -- and I don't know what they're telling the president because I don't accept the intelligence -- merely iii, five years, the power to reach the United States. That cannot exist countenanced by whatever American president. I don't intendance who's in the White House. In order to deal with that, you have to change the Chinese calculus, and I think that'south what the administration's trying to practice. They've worried most about the plummet of the regime and their long border and instability on their border. But you take to say to them, even if you have to accept very tough steps that might ultimately collapse the regime, you take to have steps because we volition if you don't. And I think that'south the message that yous're starting -- starting to see.
DICKERSON: In your book you are making the case for democracy. We have a president who talks about America first. We have a lot of Americans who are wary of U.Due south. entanglements overseas. Make the instance for republic to those who would be in the more, hey, let's just non fuss with the overseas stuff. RICE: Well, the offset thing is to remember what commonwealth promotion is not. It is -- it'south not what we did in Iraq and Afghanistan. That -- those were security issues that nosotros felt we had to solve. And and so we said, once nosotros've overthrown those dictators, we need to give those people a chance toward democracy. Just most of democracy promotion is really almost supporting those within their countries that desire to have the elementary freedoms that we have, the right to say what y'all call back, to worship as you lot please, to be free from the knock of the secret constabulary at night, places like Liberia and the Ukraine and other places that are trying to get there.
Now, Americans should recognize that of grade we're going to defend our interests, only in the long run our interests are ameliorate served when we have democracies that don't hire child soldiers, that don't harbor terrorists equally a matter of land policy, that don't traffic in human beings, that don't first wars with one another. The quintessential example of this is that nosotros took a chance subsequently World War II that a democratic Frg would never threaten its neighbors, that democratic Nippon would never threaten its neighbors, and now not only have they not threatened their neighbors, they are business firm allies and they are pillars of international stability. Democracy takes time. One of the points that I make in the book is, information technology took us a long time. That first American Constitution counted my ancestors every bit three-fifths of a human being. That first American Constitution didn't provide my father the correct to vote in 1952 in Birmingham, Alabama. But I took an adjuration of allegiance to the aforementioned Constitution as a blackness woman secretary of state with a Jewish adult female Supreme Court justice swearing me in. Democracy takes time and we take to be a trivial bit more patient and a footling chip more than helpful in speaking out for those who are nevertheless trying to become there.
DICKERSON: Well, let me enquire you well-nigh that, because in -- because President Trump, whether it's Erdogan in Turkey, or al-Sisi in Egypt, or Putin in Russia, the -- the -- the audio of freedom does not seem to come often in conversations with him. Is there a cost for that?
RICE: Well, I think it's early in the administration. There's something almost the presidency that you recognize over fourth dimension the tremendous -- not but responsibility, but the weight that it carries. And of course nosotros're going to have to deal with the president of Egypt. Of course we're going to accept to bargain with the president of Turkey. But it's well to remember too that our interests and our values propose that when countries that we have practiced relations with and want practiced relations with actually reform before there are revolutions our interests are served too. And I recollect that if the United States -- and democracy promotion actually is very oftentimes non very expensive. It's supporting elections, supporting the building of ceremonious societies, supporting a free press abroad. So I have no trouble with the president coming together with those leaders. He has to. Merely we always need to speak for our values too. And our values are the belief that we were endowed with sure rights by our creator. Information technology can't be true for but us and not for them.
DICKERSON: Final question, is this president, like all presidents, is bristling against the constraints of democracy that you lot write a lot about in here. That has caused him to say critical things of the judiciary, of the printing, and of Congress and the pace with which they work. How does that play for other countries that say, y'all see, you're -- you've got a messiness over there. Don't come tell us most how to do this.
RICE: Well, there'southward no doubt that presidents go to exist presidents and and so they realize that the founding fathers put all kinds of constraints on the presidency, a Congress, courts, ceremonious society, a printing, not to mention Americans who are kind of ungovernable anyway. And information technology can exist frustrating. Merely I call back that when I talk to others who are making (INAUDIBLE), I say it'due south also safest when the executive is actually constrained. That's what the founding fathers understood.
They also understood that democracies are not perfect. We are imperfect, but our message to the world -- in many ways our all-time message to the earth, is that yous but get up every day and you lot continue working to overcome those imperfections. And when you do that, you get a chance to bask these amazing liberties. And so I'k very grateful to the founding fathers for having given us these institutions. I hope we tin encourage others to have the same.
DICKERSON: All right, Secretary Rice, thanks and so much for existence with us.
RICE: Thank you lot.
DICKERSON: And we'll be back with our political console.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DICKERSON: We turn now to our political panel. Susan Folio is the Washington bureau chief of "USA Today," Michael Gerson is a columnist at "The Washington Post," Nancy Cordes is a CBS News chief congressional correspondent, and Jamelle Bouie is a CBS News political analyst and "Slate" magazine'due south chief political correspondent. Michael Gerson, I want to commencement with you chop-chop picking up on Condoleezza Rice, with whom you lot worked. The threat to democracy all over the world now and -- is -- is a large story and information technology's taking identify in France every bit there'south an ballot today.
MICHAEL GERSON, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Aye, information technology's truthful and American policy in Europe, for instance, has been democracy and unity for 7 decades. There'southward a reason for that. Because in every country you have a conflict between identity and idealism, between kind of blood and soil, nationalism and transnational ethics. And in the 20th century, all the worst defense of the 20th century took identify because of the triumph of identity over idealism in Europe. So I recollect there's a very direct interest that everybody has in the outcome of these kind of debates.
DICKERSON: What are you lot watching, Jamelle, in the event of the French election that Americans might care nigh?
JAMELLE BOUIE, CBS NEWS POLITICAL Analyst: I am watching to come across how well the National Front and Le Pen do in today'due south elections. I recollect the -- the convention wisdom correct now is that the National Front will stop upwards falling short of winning -- winning the election. But getting to the second circular, its share of the vote, those are actually very significant events for French political history and information technology will -- it volition be a sign perhaps of currents in French politics and in European politics whether Le Pen does, as the polls suggest, are better.
DICKERSON: Power of that nationalism Michael was talking about. Susan Page, dorsum here in America, health care. The winners and the losers from that, from the House success?
SUSAN Folio, "USA TODAY": So big winners, I think, Paul Ryan and Donald Trump. Big losers, Paul Ryan and Donald Trump. What would we be maxim this morning if they had failed to get this through the Firm/. It would be devastating politically. Simply when you go to the substance, they now own the American wellness care organization. And you heard the upkeep director and other administration officials and the president making promises they will not be able to continue, that anybody will be covered, that premiums will go down, that deductibles will go downwards, that people with pre-existing conditions will not lose any of their protections. That combination of things cannot happen.
DICKERSON: Nancy, it came together fast, information technology felt like, at the finish.
NANCY CORDES, CBS NEWS CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL Correspondent: Information technology did.
DICKERSON: Give united states of america a sense of what the process tells u.s.a. most where things stand.
CORDES: Well, they had to strike when the atomic number 26 was hot. They couldn't let their members go in one case they thought that they had the magic numbers. So you starting time had this compromise betwixt a moderate member and bourgeois members that seemed to bring a lot of the Freedom Conclave on board simply left a lot of moderates steaming mad. They felt that some of those protections that
Susan but talked almost had been eroded. Along comes Fred Upton with yet another amendment that puts a little more money into pre- existing atmospheric condition. And that gave some political encompass to these moderates who felt that the pecker was never going to be perfect in the House but they simply needed to get it out of the House, get it to the Senate, you know, to fulfill a big promise that they've been making for the past seven years, which was that they were going to repeal Obamacare.
DICKERSON: Michael, what did you lot make of that ceremony in the Rose Garden? You know from White House ceremonies. What did you lot brand of information technology?
GERSON: Well, I recollect it's a victory trip the light fantastic on the l-m line. I think when y'all practice that, information technology's non a sign of strength, it's actually a -- a kind of pathetic desire for praise. So I think that was premature and this -- yous know, the House is really relying on the Senate to come through here. They put out something that did encounter all of those standards of the members, merely was non coherent in the cease. They are, I think, depending on the Senate, led by Senator Alexander, to provide some coherence in this -- in the Republican arroyo.
DICKERSON: Now, what do they -- there are plenty of hurdles amid Republicans in the Senate. This is a Republican testify over in that location. What are the hurdles?
BOUIE: That hurdles are Medicaid, correct? That quite a few Republican senators want to preserve some measure out of Medicaid coverage, the Medicaid expansion. During recess earlier in the year, there were many aroused town halls involving constituents who wanted to preserve those Medicaid expansions. And the Firm beak cuts hundreds of billions of dollars from Medicaid, and although the budget director suggested that there would not exist any coverage loss every bit a result of those cuts, the manifestly fact is that, in fact, many people will lose coverage as a outcome of those Medicaid cuts. So i major hurdle is what -- what the Senate is going to exercise nearly Medicaid and how will Senate Republicans bargain with the fact that many of them come from states where big number of constituents take picked upwards coverage from the Medicaid expansion.
CORDES: And in that location's a hurdle that's merely plainly logistical, which is the fact that Republicans tin can merely afford to lose 2 of their members in the Senate.
BOUIE: Right.
CORDES: And it's very hard at this point to envision a beak that would satisfy Rand Paul and Ted Cruz and Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski. Both Susan Collins and Rand Paul said this calendar week the House bill is expressionless, but for completely unlike reasons. He thinks it leaves too much of Obamacare intact. She thinks it takes likewise much of Obamacare away. How does the Senate craft a pecker that satisfies these two wings of the party when you take this incredibly small margin of error?
Page: Just, of grade, we should remember that Democrats faced large divides when they passed the Affordable Care Act as well. And -- and when you lot deal with something that's equally big and complicated as the American health care system, yous're going to end up with people accepting things that they offset out thinking aren't acceptable. The thing that Republicans accept going for them is that they've been -- made this hope for seven years, as you said, and there is a large impetus to deliver on it. And I don't know if they'll exist able to deliver on information technology or not, but at that place are going to exist huge consequences for either delivering or not delivering on them and that may be the best argument that Republicans have going frontward.
DICKERSON: Michael, what do y'all make of the president, his signature talent? He said he would come to Washington and exist a negotiator of a kind no one had ever seen before. Appraise his negotiating in this case simply also in what he'southward got to practice in the Senate procedure. GERSON: Well, it was a unique view of the presidential role. Ordinarily a president volition come in with some of his own ideas and try to sell a bunch of people in the Congress on them. He did not do that in this -- in this instance. All he wanted was a bill passed. The goal was something, not something with these parameters. And and so I think that is very different than -- than presidents have done in the past.
DICKERSON: Jamelle, Democrats are running ads now attacking Republicans. They are -- they raised a lot of money. Sort through the politics. Are they correct or are they a picayune premature here?
BOUIE: I don't remember they're too premature. If -- if the American Health Care Act passes in its current grade, if it becomes law in the electric current form, which likely isn't going to happen permit's say -- allow's say, well, what the House voted for, all of a sudden millions of Americans will, in one case again, be open to a scenario where their insurers charge sort of impossibly higher rates for pre-existing weather condition. And then while it might be technically true that the neb doesn't deny anyone coverage on the ground of pre-existing conditions, it is certainly true that people will certainly no longer be able to beget their coverage. And that is a very potent attack line. I want to -- I want to rapidly go to something Susan said. It's totally true that during the Affordable Care Act fight at that place were these big divisions amidst Democrats about how much they were going to spend for coverage, so on and so along. But there was one unifying principle, and it was basically everyone in the Autonomous Political party agreed that the regime had some cardinal responsibleness to the public for health insurance. And that -- that agreement doesn't exist among Republicans, and I think that's the sticking point. And it's a tough thing to -- to get around.
Page: And y'all said that -- that if this is passed in its current grade there will be these political trouble for Republicans. The Republicans who voted for this in the Business firm tin can have ads run against them on the ground of this vote, fifty-fifty if this plan goes nowhere.
BOUIE: Right.
CORDES: Correct.
DICKERSON: Right.
Folio: And we know that there are, what, 23 seats held by Republicans --
BOUIE: Right.
Folio: In districts that Hillary Clinton carried. Those are going to be the prime target for the next eighteen months.
CORDES: And the disinteresting thing about these ads isn't but the damage that they could do in advance of 2018, which is still eighteen months away. But they're also to send a message to Senate Republicans, look at the kind of heat that y'all're going to go if you put together a bill that hurts Medicaid, that hurts people with pre-existing weather condition. In that location are 24 House Republicans who are going to start facing those ads tomorrow, and even more than facing radio ads in California. This is designed to, you know, to pave the fashion for 2018, but fifty-fifty more so right at present to transport the message to Senate Republicans who are getting to work.
GERSON: In an odd way this is the victory of President Obama. I recollect he has ingrained expectations --
BOUIE: Right.
GERSON: In the American public well-nigh pre-existing condition, about universal coverage and about costs, affordable costs, that are not going to exist met by Republicans, in this case. They were not really met past Obamacare either, when yous had college premiums and higher deductibles at the same time for a lot of people. So -- but I -- these expectations are now ingrained and yous wonder, what is -- what's the road that doesn't continue united states of america from going to single payer eventually considering -- given those assumptions?
BOUIE: That'southward -- that's real interesting because for a lot of liberal Democrats, and for a lot of Democrats on the left, Obamacare was a very flawed compromise. It was sort of this middling path between -- considering that's what they thought they had to exercise to go something approaching universal coverage. And it's clear that the Republican Party will never accept any kind of compromise on this. And so I think for the Democratic left there's a new argument, correct, that next fourth dimension nosotros take power, why non go for Medicare for all? What are -- what are the practical reasons not to do it, but the political reason not to do information technology, and looking at how Business firm Republicans got this bill through. Why exercise we have to go through all the rigmarole that we did last fourth dimension if -- if -- if the Republicans didn't? And that's where I call back the GOP has opened itself up to perhaps a backlash that it might not be anticipating policy wise.
DICKERSON: Nancy, the Freedom Caucus, the conservatives in the House, fought and got what they wanted for this House bill. The Senate bill's going to come up back to them, maybe.
CORDES: Correct.
DICKERSON: Why are they going to agree to a bill that'south gotten more moderate when it went over to the Senate?
CORDES: There'southward, yous know, no guarantee that they will. I think that the Senate is going to take to make a calculation at some point, who are we trying to win over with this bill in the Business firm? Is information technology going to exist the Freedom Caucus or is information technology going to be the GOP moderates? You know, they can afford to lose members of 1 group, but probably not both.
And so, yous know, that's going to be role of the -- the political process here. Non but how practice we win over Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski or Rand Paul and Ted Cruz. And probably at some indicate they're going to have to get in a direction that'due south going to brand ane of those two wings unhappy, and it's going to play out the aforementioned way in the House.
DICKERSON: All right, we're going to have to go in a direction toward the commercial. So, thanks to all of you. And we'll exist back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL Pause)
DICKERSON: That'southward information technology for us today. Thank you for watching. Next calendar week we'll hear from former Secretary of Defense Robert Gates. For FACE THE NATION, I'm John Dickerson.
i
Thank you for reading CBS NEWS.
Create your free account or log in
for more features.
Source: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/face-the-nation-transcript-may-7-2017-mulvaney-manchin-rice/
0 Response to "Mulvaney No Other Votes Till Senate Votes Again on Health Care"
Post a Comment